Welcome to Reddit,

the front page of the internet.

Become a Redditor

and join one of thousands of communities.

×

[–]GetYourVax[S] 7956 points7957 points7958 points locked comment (713 children)

Research by French, Spanish and German scientists published Thursday in the scientific journal Nature Neuroscience reveals that, in addition to attacking the lungs, the virus can also can kill certain brain cells.

The study shows this could be the case for patients who developed a severe form of the disease. For people who have had a more minor form of the illness, however, nothing is certain.

Taking the example of the Spanish flu, which happened just over a century ago, people who didn't die from it had a greater probability of developing neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's later in life.

Further evidence of brain damage, and what sort of brain damage, in people who died of Covid while potentially coming up with some answers for brain fog/long covid symptoms.

[–]sumduud14 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)

Just goes to show the incredible effects of mutually assured destruction.

If nuclear weapons had not been invented, there is no doubt in my mind that the scale and devastation of world wars would've kept increasing, and that the USSR would've invaded Western Europe.

Who knows what would've come next.

[–]Vinegar-Toucher 19 points20 points21 points  (10 children)

Well the UN also ended up with no teeth. It's almost like groups of nations can't really have teeth when there's no way to enforce anything.

The EU is probably the closest counterexample, but keep in mind that literally any nation can veto anything and that they can only encourage compliance by effectively bribing poorer members with support funds.

And obviously, you said "some people think" so this isn't a "gotcha".

[–]Mad_Maddin 203 points204 points205 points  (68 children)

Fun fact: A possible reason for so many people being completely fucking stupid is the lead they used everywhere back in the 50-70s.

Lead doesnt leave your body so many people got lead poisoning from leaded paint as well, juice or just leaded gasoline gasses.

Lead poisoning causes people to become dumber, harder of hearing and more agressive. This is the result of permanent brain damage.

If a woman suffers from this amount of lead poisoning it also has a high chance to going into their child, causing these children to be born with the brain damage already in effect.

So chances are anti-vaxxers are dumb due to lead poisoning and become even dumber due to being dumb.

[+]cmrdgkr 600 points601 points602 points  (118 children)

This is why I always bring up long covid in these threads. Everyone should be vaccinated, but they should also be informed, and both drug companies and the government need to be more transparent. They're throwing around numbers like "93% effective" but people are hearing that as "93% immunity" and those aren't the same thing.

it seems like both the drug companies and the government don't want to give the actual immunity numbers, because they're relatively low compared to other vaccines and I'm sure they think that would affect the number of people who would want to get the vaccine, but they need to be clear about that. Not dying isn't the only thing people should be worried about. Getting long covid and suffering these kinds of long term/permanent issues is also a major concern, so while 93% of the people might not die, who knows what percentage could still be infected and be at risk for these issues.

vaccines != everything is back to normal.

I'll repeat this again since people seem to be missing it:

Everyone should be vaccinated

[–]Lognipo 217 points218 points219 points  (19 children)

I got sick back during the first wave. It was very mild. I had a ~102 f temperature, and after that, it was like a weird revolving door of symptoms that went on for 2-3 weeks. Pretty much everything except for breathing difficulties and taste/smell issues. That all cleared up except for some killer brain fog and trouble focusing, which really, really sucks for a software developer.

Anyway, several weeks after the illness ended, I did start having trouble breathing. I literally couldn't walk. I had to take such tiny baby steps, it was like parody. If I walked even slightly too fast, I got so tired and had such trouble breathing I would have to sit down on the floor and rest.

That slowly got better over about 3 weeks, but that's when bizarre spells of vertigo and such started. I was too terrified to drive, so my boss was driving me to/from work for a couple weeks.

This stuff came in cycles and waves, and I am leaving a lot out. Like, sometimes I would feel an awful burning in my back between my shoulder blades, coupled with reduced consciousness, like I was so exhausted I couldn't keep my eyes open, and... more. I would go weeks with symptoms, weeks without, weeks with, and so on. All the while, I still couldn't focus for shit.

Thankfully, I have not had trouble breathing in at least 5 months now. No vertigo, either. My focus is not back to 100%, but I no longer feel like I am incapable of doing my job. I am even back to learning new things and doing personal projects. Apart from that, all I seem to have left is this weird sensation like someone is squeezing my throat/esophagus, or jamming their finger into my throat just below my Adam's Apple, which comes and goes. Mostly when I am tired, but sometimes it seems totally random.

It drives me nuts when people say, "risk of death is only like 0.01% for that age group HOAX HOAX HOAX!!!" Death is NOT the only potential consequence. I don't know for sure that COVID has caused all this misery, but every test has come back normal. And considering all the other reports of long COVID, it seems damn likely.

[+]UnicornHostels 260 points261 points262 points  (12 children)

Your poor mom. I have had similar happen to me too. I have always been good at multitasking. Right after I got sick, I had left my car running until it almost ran out of gas. I would leave the house in my car and forget where I was going. One day I left the stove on, walked to the other side of the house, realized I left the shower running and had neglected to push a button on one of my machines to start a project in my workshop all at the same time.

I was also dropping everything. It was like I couldn’t hold on to anything unless I used a death grip.

It was at that point I went to see a doctor because I was scared at my rapid decline. I’m better now and I hope your mom is too.

[+]whiteskinnyexpress 6 points7 points8 points  (6 children)

Long hauler here. I had terrible brain fog from February to April. Couldn't read a book, pay attention at work, it was a nightmare. I took some turmeric and honest to lord loki I was clear within hours.

I'm now 100% reliant on turmeric. 2 a day keeps the brain fog away. If I go 3 days without it I'll wake up dizzy beyond belief.

I strongly recommend trying it.

[–]Thepopewearsplaid 369 points370 points371 points  (7 children)

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not a virologist. That said, there is currently no evidence that it remains dormant in the same way as herpes type viruses... In laymen's terms, there's currently no evidence to suggest that a person previously infected with COVID will have a flare up, like those who've previously been infected with herpes. Simply put, it's an entirely different mechanism.

That said, there are also quite a few unknowns; even viruses that are not herpes can have lasting effects, though they do not remain dormant in the same sense as herpes or hpv. It is theorized that conditions such as CFS and fibromyalgia are caused by complications from previous viral infections. There are schools of thought that believe MS and diabetes have similar origins. Again, none of this is confirmed because we simply do not know enough. However, given that this is a possibility, it is likely that COVID can cause long term problems similarly a la long covid. Whether this is due to the virus itself or due to the body's immune response, well... We'll just have to wait and see.

[–]waiting4singularity 92 points93 points94 points  (3 children)

a herpes simplex like intracellular hibernation has been observed/suggested, causing positive tests after being cleared, both by lack of symptoms and test negative

https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/the-covid-19-virus-can-last-for-months-why-efb8314b2b98

Reason 3: Immune Evasion


An April study in China reported a 44-year-old man, free of medical comorbidities, who recovered after 11 days and tested negative on RT-PCR. But three days after clinical remission, a positive SARS-CoV-2 test reappeared in his throat swab and saliva, which then persisted for over a month. Antiviral therapy or traditional Chinese medicine failed to clear the virus.

Three days are too short for the incubation period of SARS-CoV-2 — i.e., mean of 5–6 days — to establish a new infection. “Thus, we deduced that the reappearance of the viral RNA was a recrudescence, rather than a new infection.” The patient also produced antibodies against the virus, indicating that the immune responses cannot clear the virus.

[–]Synssins 894 points895 points896 points  (27 children)

This was a comment reply, but I'll put it at the top. I have no doubt that COVID causes long term brain damage. I'm dealing with the after effects of it.

I was hit a year ago and hospitalized for a week. I was never intubated, but had to have supplemental oxygen. After I got out of the hospital, I experienced long haul symptoms that only recently began to start getting better, six months after my Pfizer vaxx.

Some of my long haul stuff was balance/coordination issues, nerve pain, brain fog, fatigue, POTS, etc. I had an MRI because of vestibular issues and that I was struggling to keep my balance. There is a noticeable change in my brain in the hippocampus, parietal lobe, and the temporal lobe, when compared with an MRI from three years ago.

My sense of smell and taste have not fully recovered, even a year in, and I had twice weekly physical therapy sessions for six months for the balance and coordination issues, eye tracking, etc.

Physically, I'm almost back to normal, though I'm still struggling with balance and coordination, along with double vision when my eyes decide to go wonky, usually after I've done anything strenuous, as well as fatigue, brain fog, and an inability to commit short term memory to long term without taking copious notes on everything I do or talk about with people. Pre-COVID, I never needed to take these measures.

There's a chance none of the above is related to my COVID experience, but it all started during/after my hospitalization, and there were no other triggers.

Edit: Apparently I'm also suffering from overly long run-on sentence disease...

[–]Fredex8 270 points271 points272 points  (17 children)

People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety. The deficits were of substantial effect size for people who had been hospitalised (N = 192), but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326). Analysing markers of premorbid intelligence did not support these differences being present prior to infection. Finer grained analysis of performance across sub-tests supported the hypothesis that COVID-19 has a multi-domain impact on human cognition.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext

Another study estimated a possible 7% decline in intelligence and cognition. These people are already dumb and crazy enough to think the virus is a hoax and the vaccine contains microchips/tentacle monsters/sterilising chemicals/lethal poison/the biblical 'Mark of the Beast' that will usher in the end of days... I dread to think what happens if they all get Covid and become even dumber but I guess we'll find out soon since they seem to have sided politically with a virus.

[–]Synssins 166 points167 points168 points  (13 children)

I was hit a year ago and hospitalized for a week. I was never intubated, but had to have supplemental oxygen. After I got out of the hospital, I experienced long haul symptoms that only recently began to start getting better, six months after my Pfizer vaxx.

Some of my long haul stuff was balance/coordination issues, nerve pain, brain fog, fatigue, POTS, etc. I had an MRI because of vestibular issues and that I was struggling to keep my balance. There is a noticeable change in my brain in the hippocampus, parietal lobe, and the temporal lobe, when compared with an MRI from three years ago.

My sense of smell and taste have not fully recovered, even a year in, and I had twice weekly physical therapy sessions for six months for the balance and coordination issues, eye tracking, etc.

Physically, I'm almost back to normal, though I'm still struggling with balance and coordination, along with double vision when my eyes decide to go wonky, usually after I've done anything strenuous, as well as fatigue, brain fog, and an inability to commit short term memory to long term without taking copious notes on everything I do or talk about with people. Pre-COVID, I never needed to take these measures.

There's a chance none of the above is related to my COVID experience, but it all started during/after my hospitalization, and there were no other triggers.

[–]Synssins 14 points15 points16 points  (2 children)

For a long time after, I had POTS-like symptoms. Standing up would spike my heart to 160+bpm from a resting heart rate, and I'd usually fall or have to lean on something. I ended up on a beta blocker to help with that, and then things gradually got better to the point that the beta blocker was preventing my heart from catching up to the demands I was putting on it. Doc took me off of it, and now my heart responds normally to exertion. I'm trying to get the weight back down. I went from an active gym life slinging iron to pretty much bed-ridden, and the diet didn't follow suit, so I packed the weight on. I've lost 40 lbs in the last 8 weeks now that I'm getting up and moving again. I go for a walk every morning. It's exactly 1 mile from my front door around the neighborhood back to my front door.

Other symptoms I had for a long time were shooting pains in my hands and arms, feet and lower legs. If I over-exerted one day, the next day it felt like I had a super bad case of the flu with joint pain and muscle soreness. Definitely not even a DOMS like muscle soreness, which can suck but means good things. This was pain for the sake of pain.

My goal is to be back in the gym within 6 months, but I don't think that's going to happen, realistically. I'm trying though.

[–]Synssins 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)

I know we'll get through this. I'm still looking at the sunny side of the grass, after all. When people ask me how I'm doing, I tell them "I'm vertical." which leaves them scratching their heads a bit, before I say "that's a really good thing..."

I blogged my journey in a very public way when I went into the hospital. Writing has always been a stress relief for me. This was the scariest thing I've ever gone through. I equate it to the Sword of Damocles, hanging over my head... I wasn't in a position of power, which the anecdote references, but it was the state of constant fear, because I had already lost several people to the virus. I'm no stranger to the hospital, but everything that led me there was injury related. Something I could survive. This was an unknown.

When I was admitted, my doctor and the respiratory tech sat down with me after I got settled into my room. I was a fall risk, so I was not allowed out of bed at that time. What they said to me didn't really strike me at that time. It was a couple of nights later where I got hit hard by it.

Effectively, they asked my permission that if the time came and I needed to be intubated, that they could do it. And I said yes, and then asked them why they asked me then instead of later. "Because if we have to intubate you, we won't have time to ask you then."

They described the various stages that may happen if I progressively got worse, leading up to intubation. If I got that far, they'd come into the room, inject something in my IV to put me under, and then intubate me... And I'd be kept in that state until I died, or I recovered.

I still remember the night when the SpO2/heart rate monitor was screaming that I was suffocating because my O2 was dropping below 75%, while I was struggling to breath all while coughing so badly I pulled an abdominal muscle and ended up with a nose bleed, which I never get.
I was absolutely terrified that they were going to come through the door and that would be it, and I hadn't said goodbye to my wife, my kids...

https://ionlytica.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/echo/A2amOI2.png617b2af5cd08b.jpg

[–]Saymynaian 29 points30 points31 points  (1 child)

I linked it above, but what you stated is correct:

The way we sense odours is through a cluster of nerve cells called “olfactory sensory neurons”, which are located high up at the back of the nose in a structure called the olfactory bulb. These neurons have tiny hair-like projections which extend out into the mucous-covered nasal lining and respond to odour molecules that we breathe out through our noses.

Early in the pandemic, scientists feared that SARS-CoV-2 might be triggering smell loss by infecting these olfactory neurons and then making its way into the brain, where it might cause lasting damage. Further research revealed that these neurons lack the ACE2 receptors the virus uses to infect cells, but they are found on support cells in the nasal lining which interact with these neurons.

Suggesting it attacks the olfactory center or even the neurons that are connected to these supporting olfactory cells is incorrect, since these cells don't even have the receptors the virus needs to infect them.

[+]itsrainingnoodles55 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)

My best friend and I had COVID last summer (we quarantined together for months and both got it at the same time). He’s always been a happy, optimistic, easy going person. After he had COVID, he fell into a severe depression for weeks and had a hard time coping because he had no prior history of any kind of mental illness. We both figured it was the stress of everything and the fatigue from being ill that caused it - now I’m curious if the brain damage documented can cause psychiatric symptoms.

I had PTSD prior to having COVID for years, but within a month of my physical recovery, my mental health got so bad that I had to cease working for a while and seek professional help because I felt I had completely lost my ability to think, reason, and focus. I had also assumed I was having a breakdown from stress, but, I wonder now if having COVID further damaged my limbic system at the time, ramped up my fight or flight response even further, or caused any sort of change otherwise (perhaps in blood flow or neuronal pathway activation) in the prefrontal cortex. I’m very curious to see what they find if they run follow up studies with additional hypotheses.

[–]DSMB 26 points27 points28 points  (4 children)

"To find out, we would have to take blood samples every 10 minutes for a week in order to measure the presence of the virus or not in the blood," Prévot said.

"Unfortunately, this is not feasible."

Not with that attitude! Regular blood sampling of a hospitalised patient sounds like excellent science. It might be worth the investment for all kinds of research.