90% of Ukrainians believe Russia should compensate Ukraine after war for rebuilding the country

90%-of-ukrainians-believe-russia-should-compensate-ukraine-after-war-for-rebuilding-the-country

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[–]ThePlanck 127 points128 points129 points  (39 children)

On the one hand, Russia paying for all the damage seems fair given that they started this for no good reason.

On the other hand, after WWI the allies imposed huge reparations on the Germans at the treaty of Versailles, which hurt the German economy, as well as making Germans pissed off about the whole situation which was a significant factor in Hitler's rise to power. So I would expect some people to be opposed to making Russia pay reparations because they want to avoid that happening again.

Pragmatically if we want Russia to not be such a massive dick in future the country is going to need some help to get out of their current economic clusterfuck to stop people from turning to even worse leaders who provide simple populist answers (after they leave Ukraine of course).

EDIT: of course Allied leaders, especially the Americans learned that lesson back then which is why the Marshall Plan was introduced which helped rebuild Europe after WWII and is why Europeans looked so favourably toward America for decades afterwards, and to some extent still do, though the actions of Bush Jr and Trump have dampened that slightly.

[–]PepperAnn1inaMillion 15 points16 points17 points  (3 children)

I think Covid probably counts as extra layers of shit. (I hope you realise I’m not arguing with you.) God forbid we’re headed for another economic crash like the 20s, but who knows?

The fact is, you don’t make peace by holding grudges. It sounds incredibly overly-cheesy, like “Yeah, world peace, Man”, but people really don’t get over a war unless they forgive and forget.

Ukraine definitely needs to be rebuilt, but I feel extremely sorry for the ordinary Russians who have had their families conscripted to go and die in a conflict based entirely on the lies of one maniac. They’ve had over a century of shoddy ‘leadership’ (if that word is even fitting) that doesn’t care enough about them.

[–]Drag_king 19 points20 points21 points  (1 child)

The allies not agreeing to an armistice and then conquering Germany itself would have been better I think. But it was impossible because all sides were war weary and had suffered enough already.

The reason I say this is that Germany itself wasn’t invaded during world war one (baring at the beginning in the east but they got those lands quickly back).


I think that made a big psychological difference since when the war ended the frontline was still in France.

That made the peace treaty hard to swallow. Germany was never conquered and as such the idea of if we hadn’t given up we would not have lost was an easy idea to take hold.

Compare that to the post world war 2 Germany which absolutely accepted it lost the war because when foreign soldiers conquer your territory you can’t not see it.

[–]Jaggedmallard26 66 points67 points68 points  (10 children)

On the other hand, after WWI the allies imposed huge reparations on the Germans at the treaty of Versailles, which hurt the German economy, as well as making Germans pissed off about the whole situation which was a significant factor in Hitler's rise to power

It wasn't, this is mostly discarded historiography now and literal Nazi propaganda (as in Goebbels made it part of his platform). The reparations inflicted on Gemany were some of the lowest inflicted in the war (in fact Germany gave more to Russia in Brest-Litvosk) and significantly less than what Germany had imposed on France in the Franco-Prussian war even adjusting for inflation. Neither France, Russia, the Ottomans or the Hungarians adapted national socialism.

In reality the entente barely enforced the reparations and had abandoned them by the time the Germany economy went to shit. Germany's hyperinflation and economic woes were a result of the Great Depression hitting Germany especially hard thanks to how it managed its trade and fiscal policy.

Some historians argue that had the entente actually enforced the reparations in Versaille then Germany would never have had the economic strength to cause the Second World War.

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