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[–]NotAnotherEmpire 560 points561 points562 points  (120 children)

Also, Russia only has 5.4% of their population as 20-30 year old men. 2.3% of 20-24, the more typical age for infantry draftees. Maybe another % down to 18, so 3.3.% of population.

A substantial part of this is either already in the military, or has fled the country.

Ukraine's demographics aren't good either, but (a) they're facing genocide, so they have no reason not to use all manpower, and (b) they are using large slices of their population either directly or indirectly in military capacity, including women.

[–]nomsom 3839 points3840 points3841 points  (183 children)

I can't believe nobody has mentioned this paragraph yet.

"Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko told The Associated Press that at least 21,000 people were killed in Mariupol with bodies “carpeted through the streets.” He said that the Russians deployed mobile cremation equipment to Mariupol to methodically dispose of the victims' bodies in order to hide the evidence of the massacre and prevent international organizations from documenting "the horror the Russian army is responsible for.”"

The idea of mobile cremation equipment is beyond horrifying. Not only are innocent people being slaughtered, but their bodies are being incinerated on-site to destroy all evidence of war crimes. How many people will never know what happened to their loved ones? Never be able to have a burial or any type of closure? Just ash dumped on the street.

[–]MendocinoReader 3356 points3357 points3358 points  (285 children)

“Eduard Basurin, a Russia-allied separatist official in eastern Ukraine, appeared to call for that Monday, telling Russian state TV that the Russia-backed forces should block all the exits out of the factory and then ‘use chemical troops to smoke them out of there.’ He later said that no chemical weapons were used.”

Nice job discussing potential war crimes on TV:

Geneva Convention Protocol (1925 Protocol)

International Criminal Court (ICC) Rome Statute (1998)

  Article 8 (“War Crimes”), Sec. 2:   
 “For the purpose of this Statute, ‘war crimes’ means: …. 
    b) Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict … namely, any of the following acts: …
    (xvii) Employing poison or poisoned weapons;         (xviii) Employing asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and all analogous liquids, materials or devices ….”

[–]Yvonnerobbins68 430 points431 points432 points  (51 children)

The Ukrainians' fight against all odds has scuttled Moscow's designs, tying up significant Russian forces and delaying the start of a planned Russian offensive in eastern Ukraine's industrial heartland, Donbas. The Kremlin hopes that an attack in the east could reverse the battlefield fortunes for Russia after a humiliating failure of its attempt to quickly storm the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv.

Mariupol has been a key objective for Russia since the start of its invasion on Feb. 24. Capturing the city would allow Moscow to establish a land corridor to Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula that Russia annexed in 2014 and deprive Ukraine of a major port and prized industrial assets.

The giant Azovstal steel mill and other industrial plants have been heavily damaged by the ferocious Russian bombardment that has flattened much of Mariupol, indiscriminately hitting homes, hospitals and other public buildings and killing thousands.

The victims include about 300 people killed in last month's Russian airstrike on the Mariupol Drama Theater that was being used as a shelter and had the word “CHILDREN” printed in Russian in huge white letters on the pavement outside to ward off aerial attack.

[–]nybbleth 207 points208 points209 points  (2 children)

Ukraine cannot refer things to them

Incorrect. To begin with, Ukraine has signed the ICC treaty, but has not ratified it. Which puts it in a sort of half-member state. But more importantly, countries do not have to be members of the ICC in order to refer cases to the court.

Ukraine already accepted ICC jurisdiction back in 2013; so ICC has jurisdiction.

[–]pargofan 45 points46 points47 points  (37 children)

the Russia-backed forces should block all the exits out of the factory and then ‘use chemical troops to smoke them out of there.’ He later said that no chemical weapons were used.

It really amazes me how Russia has shown no morals or restraint in attacking hospitals, raping and torturing people, killing civilians, committing genocide...

...but still has not used chemical or nuclear weapons yet. What's stopping them?

[–]Antice 46 points47 points48 points  (26 children)

A threat only works as a deterrent until you use it.

Russia is walking a tightrope against NATO. They know that using a tactical nuclear device will leave NATO no other choice than try to end Russia as fast as possible to minimise harm to NATO citizens.

Will use of a chemical weapon do the same? Not likely, but it will escalate, thus there will be a NATO response. Most likely in the form of even more gear for the Ukrainians to use against the Russians.

I would not be surprised if there would be a sizeable growth in the Ukrainian foreign legion as well.

[–]Nerd_Of_All_Things 55 points56 points57 points  (2 children)

They are experiencing extreme shock, anger, despair, depression then going into some level of mourning. My sister’s best friend family is from Mariupol - they lost touch with their family few weeks into the war. The last discussion they had was by text where the family in Mariupol were starving and living in the basement. Since then they got one call from that number which was a stranger babbling nonsense. The have no idea what happened to their family. The dad left to Ukraine after that and the mom is currently extremely depressed - not functioning as a parent and staying in bed all the time. My sisters best friend comes over for dinner a lot and has had multiple breaks down crying & heartbroken. Now shes a bit better but she believes the rest of their family is dead. Still breaks down when she hears the news and avoids social media/news as a result.

I can’t imagine she will ever be the same person as before the war. She used to be really outgoing, smile and laugh a lot. Now it’s like a part of her is emotionally and mentally broken.

The closest comparison is look around you and imagine everything gone - destroyed in flames or crumbled to dust. The comfortability of knowing your home and neighbourhood gone as if it was all in your mind to begin with.

[–]Evignity 2904 points2905 points2906 points  (58 children)

8 billion years in the future, over 4 billion years earlier the sun has gone nova and boiled away all the oceans. It's now just a tiny ember of a white dwarf.

The earth is just a barren rock, it's mountains melted down to an eternal rocky plains. There's no light, water or food.

Meanwhile the United Socialist Democratic Republics of Greater, Minor, Major and Medium States of the Soviet Space Submarines (because their ships only sink as intended) proclaim that Mariupol will fall within the next few planck-seconds.

Edit: Who the fuck is Douglas Adams

[–]GenJohnONeill 131 points132 points133 points  (5 children)

The Russians bisected the Ukrainian positions, which were downtown Mariupol (Marines) and the Azovstal plant (Azov Batallion), with the river in between. Russian forces reached the sea in a push, splitting the Ukrainians in two. This made continued resistance very difficult for the Marines since they were being bottled into only a few office and residential buildings.

Some Ukrainian Marines opted to stay, and broke through Russian lines to link up with Azov. That was successful; there are photos of Marines and Azov together from a couple days ago. They are the remaining resistance in Mariupol, concentrated around the steel plant and adjacent industrial areas.

Other Marines wanted to break out of the city, they formed a column to try to punch through Russian lines and get out of the city. Under intense fire they broke into some smaller groups. The fate of all the individual groups is unknown, but some were killed, and some surrendered. Some may have made it out.

Some Marines surrendered, it's not clear if they were all part of the group trying to break out, or if some chose to surrender given the lack of ammunition and food.

[–]royal_bambi 1606 points1607 points1608 points  (62 children)

Mariupol vs. the entire Russian Army

50 - 0

She's a key Russian objective, slated to be taken in the first day. She's been surrounded, cut off and starved since the first week. She's been besieged and shelled into dust from all sides, and absolutely nobody believed she would last longer than the next 2 days... then the next 2... then the next 2...

Every day Mariupol stands is a sucker punch to Putin's botoxed jaw. He fluffed up his Z-men thinking that taking Kyiv would be his operation's biggest endeavor, but I bet he never expected a little Russian-speaking port city would deal him such a stinging Ukrainium smackdown. Mariupol is wiping the floor with Russia's reputation, pissing on the whole military, a monument to Russian incompetence and humiliation.

[–]Cepheid 120 points121 points122 points  (15 children)

Presumably much easier, as I understand it, the Moskva was specifically an anti-cruise missle ship designed to defend against exactly the kind of weapon that destroyed it.

Implying that if Ukraine have more of those missiles, the Russian ships can't be anywhere near them as even their dedicated countermeasure ship was taken out by it.

I think that means the seas will now be clear where-ever Ukraine deploys these systems.

[–]TotallyInadequate 223 points224 points225 points  (32 children)

We know that there are currently at least 3 Russian KILO class submarines in the Black Sea (one had to pass through Instanbul to reach the Black Sea in February, 2 were already registered in there and haven't left during the war).

On top of that, of the ships we know are currently operational and are actually being used, they have somewhere on the order of 4 older submarines, they have 5 amphibious landing craft (1 is destroyed, the Orsk), another 2 cruisers on top of the Moskva (these are actually stuck on the other side of the Bosporus), 2 Grigorovich class Frigates, 1 Krivak class Frigate (supposed to be 3, Admiral Essen was damaged 11 days ago, other hasn't been officially sighted to the best of my knowledge - interesting to note this is the same class of ship which Ukraine had to scuttle at the start of March in Mykolaiv), somewhere on the order of 8 Corvettes, a similar number of small landing craft, 2 Patrol ships (supposed to be 3, one was alleged to have been damaged, the Vasily Bykov but was never confirmed), a dozen Patrol boats, and a couple dozen various support and specialised ships.

So basically: this hasn't changed the game in any meaningful way. The Russians seem to have pulled their warships closer to Sevastopol rather than them loitering nearer to Odessa, but with that many submarines sneaking around, no ships are getting past the blockade without Russia's say-so for now.

[–]sheepsleepdeep 123 points124 points125 points  (4 children)

So basically: this hasn't changed the game in any meaningful way.

On top of being the lead command and control ship in the black sea, providing comms and command support to the fleet, Moskva was providing a bubble of anti-air and missile defense over the black sea operation. That's actually how Ukraine was able to hit it with a surprise attack- giving it a decoy aircraft to track and worry about so they can blindside it with a surface-skimming missile.

Not having Moskva in the operations area leaves all surface vessels vulnerable to attack aircraft and cruise missiles.

This forced the entire Russian surface force to pull back into open water to increase the range and detection time of threats now their their primary defensive and command ship is underwater.

It certainly changed the game in a meaningful way.

[–]Zegero 37 points38 points39 points  (3 children)

The Russians bisected the Ukrainian positions, which were downtown Mariupol (Marines) and the Azovstal plant (Azov Batallion), with the river in between. Russian forces reached the sea in a push, splitting the Ukrainians in two. This made continued resistance very difficult for the Marines since they were being bottled into only a few office and residential buildings.

Some Ukrainian Marines opted to stay, and broke through Russian lines to link up with Azov. That was successful; there are photos of Marines and Azov together from a couple days ago. They are the remaining resistance in Mariupol, concentrated around the steel plant and adjacent industrial areas.

Other Marines wanted to break out of the city, they formed a column to try to punch through Russian lines and get out of the city. Under intense fire they broke into some smaller groups. The fate of all the individual groups is unknown, but some were killed, and some surrendered. Some may have made it out.

Some Marines surrendered, it's not clear if they were all part of the group trying to break out, or if some chose to surrender given the lack of ammunition and food.

[–]0yellah 45 points46 points47 points  (0 children)

Man I am so fucking proud of the Ukrainian people, their fighters and their leader. I always knew Ukrainians were tough as nails (being from Alberta with a huge ethnic Ukrainian population settling and thriving in the rather inhospitable prairie regions knew this anyways)

It’s hard to imagine what these fighters are going through stuck in that giant complex. It’s something out of a movie but ever so horrifying to think this a grim reality that is taking place.

Also, not to make light of any of this at all, but had a random thought that people could make this into an absolutely epic fuck -the-Russians video game in this crazy industrial plant. Hoping to dear God the Ukrainian backup and break through and crush those Z loser mother fuckers