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[–]TheRealJohnRedCorn [score hidden]  (4 children)

Yeah it’s pretty wild. I’m atheist myself, but I have tons of ultra racist, conservative, protestant coworkers that say Catholics aren’t real Christians. I’m like, really… the very first Christian religion… the church that was literally established by Christ and his disciples, with Peter being the first pope… Those people aren’t “real Christians” despite the fact that they make up 50% of the world’s 2 billion Christians. And your bullshit denomination, which makes up a tiny sliver of Christianity (evangelical, baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, seventh day Adventist, Jehovah’s Witness, etc, etc) which all have their roots from the 1500’s when Martin Luther threw a bitch fit; but has splintered into 100s of different sects since then; most without any central leadership (like a pope)… that’s the real Christianity. Yes, not the one that’s been around for 2000 years.

So after I explain that thier version of Christianity is the bullshit one, I explain that Catholics (the real Christians, as we’ve just established) have this thing called “papal infallibility” which means anything the pope says is doctrine; it is the word of god and cannot be questioned. Well guess what, the new pope says that evolution is real, it’s ok to be gay, and atheists can go to heaven as long as they’re good people. LOOOOL

[–]mankindmatt5 [score hidden]  (7 children)

I could be wrong here, but as I remember that case, the medical staff were powerless in the face on heavily restrictive laws on aborting a fetus.

It wasn't that the doctors were extremely adherent to their Catholic faith, but that performing the abortion in that case could have landed them a life sentence in prison.

In response, the Irish government changed the law to prevent such a case happening again. Church authorities in Ireland even confirmed that the life of a fetus should not take precedence over the mother's life in such circumstances.

[–]listlessloss1994 [score hidden]  (2 children)

And, poor people, btw - if you're poor and legally proven pregnant, we will give you cheese and vegetables to keep your fetus alive.

But after your fetus becomes a baby, please continue working and figure out your own Healthcare for a pediatrician; if you cannot afford one, or to feed your child, we will collect said child via social services, and we will admit them to a foster home where they will be able to potentially learn how to combat the risks of, and not restricted to: sexual abuse, physical abuse, definitely neglect, and, ironically (!) the idea of poverty.

Most of these kids go to foster homes, not families. Folks who use them as a cash crop.

[–]iloveyouand [score hidden]  (0 children)

It's purposeful political exploitation.

"Think of the children".

It's not meant to address an actual problem but to appeal to emotion and manipulate the christian sense of morality. A fetus isn't capable of agreeing or disagreeing either way but they start from the assumption that every fetus agrees with them as if it were a grown adult.

If you want to learn more about the origins of the pro-life ideology, the conservative think-tank American Enterprise Institute largely developed it. Ben Wattenberg was a chairman at AEI at the time and wrote a book explaining some of its foundations and plans to manipulate christians toward the right. The book is called Birth Dearth.

[–]Tler126 1570 points1571 points1572 points 2 (131 children)

For the first time in any US citizens lifetimes, EVER, in the United States, the Supreme Court is willfully going to reinterpret precedent (Stare Decisis is functionally dead in the SC) and choose to limit rights it had explicitly expanded 50 years ago.

It will harm women, it will harm people, it will harm children. It's 100% at the behest of only conservatives in America.

I don't fucking care if you call yourself moderate conservatives/Republicans anymore.

YOU OWN THIS NOW FUCKERS.

The blood is on your hands, go ahead and wash it off with the blood of thousands of dead children and adults, every year, from unregulated 2A expansion. While reminding yourselves that you took rights away from women everywhere. Yep, real freedom loving patriots there.

This is authoritarianism, since I'm American and leftist, I will say this more concisely:

This is fascism.

[–]DarthSatoris [score hidden]  (0 children)

He stated that SCOTUS overturning these decisions was the right thing to do as these issues should be left to individual states to decide for themselves.

Then what's the point of being a "United States" if human rights don't apply equally everywhere?

It's like at this point the "United" States is actually just two different countries who hate each other wearing one of those "get along" shirts and are desperately trying to rip it apart.

[–]Tler126 66 points67 points68 points  (17 children)

It's been a disturbing but consistent backslide (fucking thank you Republicans and Conservatives you fucking pricks). What's more alarming is fascism takes all kinds of shapes. Nazism is specific, America is undergoing its own brand of fascism.

I hope it never comes close to the Fascists of the past we all know (Franco, Nazis, Khmer Rouge, etc.)

To be clear, in the last 100 years they (fascists) have all been characterized by one very particular characteristic.

They are anti-liberal/anti-progressive, (specifically lower case for both.

Fear the future, love the past. Also give your rights up, we'll take care of you, look what we've done! We stopped those mean, no evil people. Don't worry what happens to those people, the media is also lying to you. Everything is great! Now get back to work.

[–]AbbieNormal 218 points219 points220 points  (18 children)

Shamelessly (but agreeably!) replying to the current top comment - from shit I commented elsewhere, when more sober

Plagiarizing this from a comment I left on a now-zapped post elsewhere:

FUCK THE "RELIGIOUS RIGHT" for going full Taliban here, as much as the law allows - esp now that the law might allow much worse.

Note to anyone who considers yourself "Pro Life":

If you oppose abortion, but also oppose

_
- Universal healthcare of some sort,

  • 100% free prenatal care,.l

  • 100% free healthcare for children,

  • free or highly subsidized childcare,


    &/or


    Science-based sex education

...you are not Pro Life! You are pro-control, pro-suffering that isn't yours, and anti-fairness.

Having been raised "religious right" - one of the things that helped me break through the bullshit, was a friend asking why TF I'd want to subject unwanted children to a life of hell, when even most pastors say that aborted fetuses go straight to Heaven. That was just the beginning, but seriously FUCKING THINK ABOUT IT if you're reading this and on the fence.

*Low-key edited for formatting

[–]GrammatonYHWH 191 points192 points193 points  (18 children)

That's predicated on the assumption that the court system works like a video game. Input "religious freedom" and the court spits out "abortion freedom". Judges can just decide to say no and come up with some bullshit to justify it after the fact.

This is something which has to be fought by mass protests. It's clear these justices don't give a damn about the law, so pressure has to be exerted by the 1st, 2nd, and 4th estate.

Seriously, they are overturning abortion laws because there weren't other abortion laws on the books before them i.e. "Deeply rooted in this nation's history and tradition". This is so completely stupid because it means ANY recent law can be repealed.

[–]LaZZyBird 10.3k points10.3k points10.3k points 3222& 4 more (606 children)

SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Do it America. Treat your extremist churches the same way you treat the Taliban. Remove their tax exempt status. You are a secular country, not a theocracy.

And for the extremist religious folks - read the damn book. Pretty sure if Jesus was alive he would smite all of you for blasphemy and idolatry. You are looking more and more like the people Jesus was complaining about in the Bible.

[–]RedrunGun 1793 points1794 points1795 points  (129 children)

The only time Jesus got mad was at people using God as a tool to profit. Just like Republican lawmakers. So many Conservatives love to describe themselves as alphas, like they're wolves, and everyone else as sheep. They're violent, bigoted, deceitful, domineering, and never accept responsibility, all while claiming to support family values, personal responsibility, freedom, and Christ. Their "values" are simply a costume they slide into to hide what they truly are. Funny how Jesus, the Shepard, warned us about the wolves in sheep's clothing.

[–]Spellczech101 330 points331 points332 points  (34 children)

I would pay to watch that series.

Jeus comes back. It is genetically proven and backed. He goes around from church to church to collect the money they have been collecting on "his behalf"...

Dead set, if any Jesus were to return, he would likely be killed off faster than any alternative energy or fuel inventors.

[–]hurtsdonut_ 85 points86 points87 points  (9 children)

Well you have to understand that Republican lawmakers use their base as morons. They know they're dumb as shit. So they play off Jesus while they do everything Jesus would hate. Then they say abortion. Because God would never kill children, oh. And of course Jesus loved guns.

The real truth is Jesus was a pacifist liberal that was best friends with a prostitute.

But now we're stuck with supply side Jesus and surrounded by morons.

[–]F1F2F3F4_F5 40 points41 points42 points  (5 children)

Like I always say to many Christians-

Jesus cared for and forgave the homeless and the prostitute.

Jesus explicitly condemned rich people, those who hoard wealth and exploit other people. Jesus also condemned people who showcase their religiosity in public, yet whose lives are filled with wickedness in private, the charlatans and pharisees.

So why do Christians today care more about sexual lives of others and hate the poor and homeless, YET these people also simp so much for the rich. They have more respect and admiration for Musk and Bezos than a homeless mother of 3 desperately trying to make ends meet.

I'm an atheist, full disclosure. But if Jesus turned our to be real, i'll be laughing as many of the self-proclaimed Christians will be the first ones to burn.

[–]ArmChairAnalyst86 1797 points1798 points1799 points  (97 children)

What a divisive issue....BACK in the 70s.

For half a century women in many places have been able to make their own choice on this matter as set forth in Roe v Wade as a legal precedent.

Regardless of how a person feels regarding the subject, it's easy to spot the flaw in a plan that reverses such a landmark ruling that was battled in court forever ago.

This is going to get ugly...

[–]ArmChairAnalyst86 58 points59 points60 points  (1 child)

I get it, but it has an air of double jeopardy despite that not actually being a thing for cases like this.

Also, the process to enact Roe V Wade was alot more thorough and transparent than what this process looks like.

It's easy to grant a right to choose but much harder to take one away on any issue, and this one is much thornier than most.

[–]broken-neurons [score hidden]  (2 children)

In Freakonomics, we examined the causes of the rise and fall of violent crime in the United States. In 1960, crime began a sudden climb. By 1980, the homicide rate had doubled, reaching a historic peak. For several years crime stayed perilously high, but in the early 1990s it began to fall and kept falling. So what happened?

In Freakonomics, we identified one missing factor - the legalization of abortion in the early 1970s. The theory was jarring but simple. A rise in abortion meant that fewer unwanted children were being born, which meant fewer children growing up in the sort of difficult circumstances that increase the likelihood of criminality.

Steven D. Levitt

[–]Bearshitsinthewoods 1434 points1435 points1436 points 2 (71 children)

American democracy is dying. I’ve been watching it happen for the past twenty years.

I’m British and my wife is from Texas, we spend (or did before COVID) half the year in the States and the rest in the UK. My kids are being schooled in England right now. I originally moved to the US for work and I love the country, I love its sweeping vistas and the decency of so many of the people I have met. But the political divide is tribal and it is now so much more hostile than I’ve ever seen. The lessons of the 20th Century seem to have been forgotten. People take pleasure in being uninformed and respect for knowledge is waning daily. So many people want to be stupid because they equate that with being happy. They want to shout slogans, they do not want to think deeply about complex issues. They want to be part of a greater whole and are suspicious of those who do not. They want authoritarianism because they think it will make them more secure.

In reality they are scared, scared of pretty much everything. I’ve never known a country to be as fearful as the US. Maybe it started with 9/11, maybe not. But fear is what drives so many people there, not hope or love or a desire for freedom. They are afraid of change and afraid of losing what they have. So they put their trust in people who are prepared to lie to them to get their vote. They vote for someone like Trump, someone who couldn’t care less about these people. Just as Putin does not care about his people, or any people for that matter.

[–]Einar_47 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)

We spend more on our defense budget than the next 10 world powers combined, installed government agencies to monitor our internet activity, and we all know good and well the government, Google, Facebook, Amazon and who knows who else all listen to us all the time every day, privacy is no longer a thing, our cops murder people and get a paid vacation.

And everyone acts like this shit is normal.

It's supposed to be no taxation without representation and I'm feeling pretty fucking unrepresented because I didn't want any of this shit.

[–]TheLumberjackHero 926 points927 points928 points  (186 children)

Here’s what I don’t get: why did conservatives hang their hat on this issue to such an insane degree?

High taxes: look, I get it, I don’t like paying them either especially when we don’t see a return on investment.

Guns: yeah, an armed (TRAINED) populace is a check on tyranny, I mean, hopefully.

A hundred other issues that do have some merit, but abortion?

You’re against it, I know, but it’s not like you have to get one. It’s not even like one can be forced on you. And as far as the moral angle goes, then you have the high ground: she’s a slut, a murderer, whatever. You’re good! If you believe that God is all knowing and all seeing, and this is a big problem, then your personal resistance means you’re safe. Hell, even in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah God said, “Just find one good person and I’ll spare the city.” Well, clearly you’re not alone so it’s not fire and brimstone for the USA. And as far as arguments about, “well children can be indoctrinated, especially my pure, virgin daughter,” so what you’re saying is that you’re so incompetent at trying to instill your values into YOUR CHILD that a few hours of sex education can undo what you’ve tried to teach them? Guess you’re kind of bad at being a parent.

[–]Leezeebub 188 points189 points190 points  (1 child)

The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.

  • Methodist Pastor David Barnhart

[–]Naturgmald3 28 points29 points30 points  (0 children)

Not OP, but I've pursued this line of argument with people with similar views, and I usually get one of the following answers.

(1) The fetuses' right to life autonomy supersedes the woman's right to bodily autonomy. They would would argue that your organ donor analogy is imperfect because many potential donors could save the person's life whereas the law recognizes that the right to life supersedes another individual's right to autonomy when they have sole responsibility of the first person. For example, if a mother crashed her car in a blizzard while driving with a toddler and was forced to walk to the nearest town, it would be illegal for her to abandon the child to die on the side of the road so she didn't have to carry it with her.

(2) There is a moral difference between allowing someone to die and actively killing someone. The right to bodily autonomy justifies the former but not the latter. They would argue that refusing to donate an organ is allowing someone to die while aborting a fetus is actively killing someone.

(3) After conception, the fetus's bodily autonomy matters more than that of the mother. They would argue that woman's choice to become pregnant was analogous to someone donating an organ whereas aborting the fetus would be analogous to the donor asking for the organ back from the person who had already received it.

I find this last argument is the most problematic because it goes some gross places if carried to its logical conclusion. For example, when asked what if the pregnancy was an accident, the response is that the woman accepted the responsibility of pregnancy by choosing to become sexually active. Pushing further and asking about the case of rape, I've found people who will make the whole "Rape only happens to women who are asking for it." argument.

[–]MayIServeYouWell 32 points33 points34 points  (3 children)

I know the people and the logic. But there are all kinds of ways that fetuses are not treated as people.

Are we now going to have fetal certificates just like we have birth certificates?

Can we claim the unborn as dependents on our taxes? Do they count in a census?

Do we treat a miscarriage with the same gravity as the death on an infant? Not for most people.

Do the unborn even have legal names? Can they?

These are just a few things from the top of my head. Of course, this won’t convince anyone but it does illustrate that we simply don’t treat unborn people as people.

[–]LeSnipper 23 points24 points25 points  (5 children)

Seriously why do i keep seeing all these comparisons? Islam prioritizes the mother and we dont consider a fetus to be even alive until 120 days (4months) have passed.

Abortion is always permissible if the mothers health is at risk or from rape, some allow it in cases of poverty or complete inability to care for the newborn

American academic Azizah Y. al-Hibri notes that "the majority of Muslim scholars permit abortion, although they differ on the stage of fetal development beyond which it becomes prohibited.

No Muslim-majority country bans abortion in the case of the mother's life being at risk. Other reasons that are permitted by certain countries include preserving a woman's physical or mental health, foetal impairment, cases of incest or rape, and social or economic reasons. 

Its very restricted sure. But its not outright banned like some backward american states like alabama or texas which ban even deadly ectopic pregnancy abortion

Source and detailed source

Tunisia and Turkey have by far the most progressive laws among Muslim states in the region. Abortions in these two countries are fully legal in the first trimester and provided free of charge in public health facilities upon a woman’s request — officially, at least.

Last i checked these two are muslim states. Not only is it legal but they also have free healthcare

[–]Denala 651 points652 points653 points  (127 children)

There goes your rights women. You are ruled over by the catholic cult known as the supreme court

U.S. Supreme Court now features a total of six Catholics on the bench, accounting for two-thirds of its total number of justices.

Tell me how this court is legitimate.

[–]pup5581 125 points126 points127 points  (4 children)

Excited for them to merge church and state at the federal level and have us start at 1833 again (They basically already have in the south anyways)

"It's a great day for god" is what some Republicans are saying.

So now we're basing our country on what jesus would want in the year -234? Or for someone like me who doesn't believe in a god, a fairy tale book?

Religion or not....a person should be able to choose what they do with their body. Doing "what god would want" is not how we move forward.

It's how we move backwards